posted by M. | 5:20 AM
Your sarcasm aside, Hills, Kmart, WalMart, Dunhams, JCPenney, etc. created a lot of jobs for a lot of people.They may not make the high wages of a college professor but they are working. I'd much rather see that than ride through the streets of East Liverpool as I do every day, seeing NON-WORKING people sitting on the porches of their "historic" houses or in the doorways of the downtown's architecturally beautiful buildings, while I pay for them with my taxes.Every town has its beauty, Matt. Calcutta's just happens to be retail business. If people want to live there and work there, that's fine.If they want to live and work (or not work) in the city, that's fine, too. I like both towns myself.
Perhaps you can get viewers to submit more historic pictures of downtown Calcutta. Maybe someone has a picture of the old Sky View Theater with the car speakers and it's huge rectangular screen.
Wow, I sure miss this store. It's great to see this photo of years gone by.
Wow. This is indeed a beautiful shot of a beautiful settlement. I love Hills. I love the car with what appears to be a flat tire. I love the myriad choices to shop. I love everything about this. I love Calcutta, Ohio.
Something for everyone--You're right.Bill--I wish there were more pics of "old Calcutta" around. I'd like to see a pic of the original Billingsley's supermarket, Knepper's ice cream store (when the building was on the corner), Ashbaugh's store, Jim Harsha's Pennzoil station, and of course, Sky View drive-in.
M...I also remember visiting my mother's first cousin who owned the place where Hoge's is now (I presume it's still there). The dining room at Hoge's with the fireplace was their living room. They also had a general store (Estep's) in part of the building.something for everyone...Retail jobs do little for the area's economy. They don't produce anything. The locals blame the manufactures (i.e., Crucible, etc.) and the government for the loss of jobs, but they need to look in the mirror to see who contributed to the problem. I remember when I visited my parents in EL during the 60's and a neighbor was bragging about his 13 week PAID vacation from Crucible. I wondered how they could afford to pay someone to not work for a quarter of the year and be competitive in the world economy. I guess they couldn't. The workers also resisted automation. They thought it would cost jobs.
Bill, my husband lost his job at Crucible so you're not telling me anything I don't know. I have told him it was the union's greed that killed that mill and still believe that to this day.But retail jobs are better than NO jobs which is what we would have without them, since the mills and potteries are pretty much shot.
something for everyone said...I know the individuals who work there benefit. My sister-in-law worked at Hill's for most of the time they were in business in Calcutta. I was talking about the economic climate of the area. They need to do something to attract those evil corporations to the tri-state area. Why are the foreign auto companies building plants in the south and not there? Toyota opened a plant in our town to manufacture engine blocks two years ago. We just lost a bid to Chattanooga for a VW plant. Our unemployment rate is under 4%.I haven't heard many who were directly impacted by the RIF at Crucible admit to what you stated. In the 80's, my unemployed 25 year old nephew came to live with us for an attitude adjustment. I asked him how much he should be able to make if he found a job. He said $13/hr. That was based on what the mill had paid for unskilled labor. He blamed the president for the problems at Crucible. Before he came to our place, he and his buddies spent their time at the taverns discussing how it was someone else's fault they were out of work. He couldn't even fill out a job application. Fortunately, he found a job, saved some money, got some training, now has a family and is doing pretty well.
Bill in Alabama,I do also remember the Crucible Steel situation. Union greed,my ASS. Everyone forgets that if it wasn't for the UNIONS you would have NO benefits. DO you honestly think that your employer or ANY employer WANTS to give any benefits? WHY do they do it then?You figure it out.I also remember that it was more profitable for COLT Industries...the owner of the Crucible Steel mill to shut down and take the tax write offs.I also remember that the President that got us into this mess was a democrat named Carter, That Democrats controlled both houses and didn't want to work for a "peanut farmer". That inflation was double-digits and that interest rates were 20 percent plus.Reagan took the blame for alot of the problems caused by Carter and the democratic controlled congress. But he will go down in history as one of the greatest presidents in our lifetime.
Just my thoughts--Do you honestly believe that Ronald Reagan was a friend of the working man and the unions? It was Reagan who broke the unions in this country, starting with the air traffic controllers. I don't mind that you like Reagan, but let's not get confused about whose side he was on.
Crucible was a thriving steel mill mismanaged. The unions were an excuse and people bought into that hook, line, and sinker because they don't understand anything else. The top management brought Crucible down. It's got nothing to do with the president of your choice.
My father was a Teamster all his working life. My husband was a member of 1212 at Crucible and went it went down, he joined Teamsters. My son is a member of the Carpenters' union.I am not anti-union but the unions made it possible for workers to get those 13 weeks paid vacations talked about earlier and to make it nearly impossible to get rid of a bad worker (see the OEA union as an example...I had a superintendent tell me one time he'd almost have to catch a teacher having sex with a student on the gym floor to get rid of a teacher).Mill workers were paid higher wages than anyone in the area and many took advantage of the company by slacking off. Then, when foreigners came in the companies were ripe for the picking.By the way, I am in a non-union job and make a good wage PLUS benefits that, no, they don't have to provide, but they do because it helps foster a better working relationship. But, I am not so greedy as to expect to get those benefits for free. I pay for them out of each check and am glad to get them in today's economy.I see teachers in various school districts bitching because they are being asked to pay a small fraction of the cost of their benefits. Boo hoo.
M. I have worked at a couple of jobs over the last 20 years. I was never hired by a poor person. I'm sure working for the government (Kent STATE University) let's you have a diffrent view of things.Business - Labor relations has to be a two way street. If labor is paid too much money for too little work, shame on them. They are only slitting their own throats. If Business pays them too little the shame rests on them.I believe that Samuel Gompers or another early labor leader said labor should not be wed to one party or another so that the two parties would compeate for labors vote.TVFOHThe View From Out Here
Why is it that everyone thinks it's okay for the worker to give up something but not the company? Does anyone ever think that happy employees make companies work? Where did we get this slave mentality?
To be honest, the failure of Crucible was lack of modern automation. And both the unions AND the corporations are to blame for the mess we are in.I really find it funny though, when the Democrats try to blame the mortgage crisis on Republicans. ACORN, along with Obama and others' "community activism" pushed the mortgage companies to grant loans to unqualified minorities in the name of political correctness...backed by Fannie and Freddie guarantees. And now you see what happened.
Here is a great fact-filled educational video on our current economic troubles (you may want to put it under it's own heading, Matt):http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NU6fuFrdCJY
What I find amazing here is all of you people really don't understand why the steel mills, Crucible and Pittsburgh, were forced out of business.You all discuss varies reasons you think caused the mills to go down, but you all completely miss the point.
ELONative,Crucible Steel did modernize as they dumped 36 million dollars into Two new Electric Arc Furnaces prior to shutting down. By shutting down the plant enabled them to take an instant write off. Crucible Steel mismanagement was one of the things I blamed on the shutdown, but not entirely. I know for a fact it wasn't the 13 weeks vacation. Thanks for the YouTube Video, it does explain to me, why the Democrats want to stay away from this issue. Why doesn't the news media investigate this issue?Matt, As to Reagan being a friend of the working man, you cannot name ONE president that ever was a friend. Carter came about as close as I can remember, but he was shunned by the good ol boys in Washington, most were members of his own party. I do remember shopping at the local grocery stores and watching the stockboys re-tag all the canned goods with higher prices, sometimes twice a week. I also remember that there were jobs available in this area, jobs that paid a living wage and benefits. I remember getting my income tax filed and the preparer remarking that we cannot survive with 20% interest rates. Is Obama the answer? I cannot support any man that does not respect the American Flag or the National Anthem. My union supports him. I do not.Is McCain the answer? I don't know either. He does respect the flag and was POW for a long time.I really don't think that he will be another four years of Bush.Personally I think that we need a "do-over" for both parties.
I don't know if this applies to Crucible or any other steel mills for sure, but I read an interesting article a few years back about World War II's effect on American manufacturing.When World War II ended, the US was essentially the only major power that did not take any damage to infrastructure. Germany, Japan, Britain, France, Italy, Russia, China - all blown to bits by one country or another.Now I don't know if this is true or not, but the article's argument was this: After WWII ended, the US's GDP (lead by its powerful manufacturing base) was equal to the rest of the world's GDP COMBINED. We literally made everything.Well, because we had very little competition due to the fact that everyone else's country was in shambles, we prospered. However, by doing so well, our industry's had little reason to upgrade our infrastructure.Many of the other nations had to start from scratch and build everything new - and new meant with the best technology available. So after a few decades, we were left with outdated infrastructure, high costs of new environmental regulation, and large wages for union workers - while others were not.Whether that's a contributing cause to our decline - I don't know. But it makes sense to me.
That makes real sense, Suspicious Mind.
For the first time EVER, I have to back Matt on the fact that Reagan, whom I voted for and LOVED, broke up the Unions, starting with the air traffic controllers. I was in college during the time, thinking that blue-collar work would never have to be an option for me, as it has never been . . . thankfully. And before all you blue-collar workers want to start screaming at me, please understand that Reagan's bust ups affected mostly every man in my family. I just happened to be lucky enough to be in college during this, got a totally different set of skills, and got out of the Ohio Valley. I would have stayed could I have found a job, but everyone was losing jobs back then. So, there, Matt -- I back you for the first time!As for talking about "Downtown Calcutta" . . . .all voting people out there need to do is pass the bill that makes St. Clair Township no longer a DRY township, and all Calcuttians never again have to drive to Boardman for their Saturday night out! Thye'd just have to buy their clothes at JCP, buy their food and household goods at Walmart or Giant Eagle, and take the family to dinner at TGIF while dad even gets to have a beer. And guess what? New businesses, new jobs, happier Calcutta people (maybe all they ever needed was the freedom to have a shot a booze publicly!) . . . man, it's all good. But NOOOOO, booze is the root of all evil, so, as long as the old geezers who still live and vote in Calcutta (and incidently, it is these old geezers I acknowledge for helping make Calcutta the place you wanted to move to), there will never be a free swillin' tap runnin' in Calcutta. Oh, what a shame. Downtown Calcutta ( you present sarcastically)? That will become a ghost town like downtown ELO if the cronies don't finally get it and vote in booze. JFK's dad made his millions during prohibition because booze was outlawed in these states .. . but people still wanted it, and he still found a way to get it to them. How's that for a Republican givin a Democrat credit? Have to love his gusto. Calcuttians, just give up and say YES to booze next time, and we'll create jobs and no longer have to drive to Boardman or Pittsburhg just to have a glass of wine with our dinner. Get over it, you bible-thumpin', scared Christians. I bet 75% of the people who vote against that bill every year get drunk at least one night a week in the privacy of their own homes where none of their fellow churchpersons can see them. But yet, there fellow churchpersons are boozin' it up, too, behind closed doors. They should all get together and have a drunken' toga party. Oh, but they MUST have the church organist there!!!! (Now I'm just bein downright rauncy.) I think I'm gonna start droppin' my g's at the end of every word so I can start soundin' like Sarah . . . "Now gosh darn it, Joe . . ." Who's the last person you heard say "Dag nab it?" And what the hell does that mean anyway? Who actually said that for the first time, and WHY?Good night and good luck.
Suspicious Mind said... I don't know if this applies to Crucible or any other steel mills for sure, but I read an interesting article a few years back about World War II's effect on American manufacturing. When World War II ended, the US was essentially the only major power that did not take any damage to infrastructure. Germany, Japan, Britain, France, Italy, Russia, China - all blown to bits by one country or another. Now I don't know if this is true or not, but the article's argument was this: After WWII ended, the US's GDP (lead by its powerful manufacturing base) was equal to the rest of the world's GDP COMBINED. We literally made everything.[end quote]You are basically correct. The US helped Japan and Germany and probably a few other places rebuild their plants etc. The end result was they had new modern, efficient up to date mills and manufacturing plants while we still had older and in many cases outdated plants.
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