Forget refuse and go after streets
by M. Stewart
Today's Review carries a story about East Liverpool Service-Safety Director Ryan Estelle enforcing a no-gifts rule for refuse and other city employees. While this might seem like the tactics of a bad middle school teacher who has lost control of his class, what's really sad is that Estelle had to get involved in the first place. The department supervisor should have handled this.
Of course I don't know the whole story, but Estelle's involvement seems to have become necessary only after streets and refuse department supervisor Ray Talbott's failed to manage the situation. With evidence of men drinking on the job, Estelle had little choice but to step in. The only thing I can't figure out is why Talbott isn't the subject of discussion.
I have no problem with the refuse department workers. In fact, I think they do a good job. My trash is picked up on time every week. What more can I ask of them? No, this is a leadership issue, and one has to wonder if there is anyone running that department. Under Talbott's supervision, the street department has become a joke. Our city streets are among the worst in the developed world, yet virtually nothing is done to maintain them.
Here's what an East Liverpool native who returned to town for the all-class reunion had to say about our streets:
While back [for] the All Class Reunion a few months ago, it was great to see my family and old friends. ... I was in shock to see the bad condition of the streets. The downtown looked like a gigantic parking lot, the old West End that seemed like a city itself in the 50s was almost gone and looked like a ghost town. (Division Street had ruts that were three feet deep on both sides!) Lou Holtz freeway [was] full of weeds like trees growing out of the steel of the guard rails! If I was Lou, I would have to tell [them] to take my name off that sign.
You can read the rest of the comment by "namdogtag" under my Oct. 6 post, A poverty industry testimonial.
This is from a sympathetic visitor. Those of us who live here are even better informed as to the condition of our streets. And where is the street department? Where is the street supervisor? On the surface, finding beer in the refrigerator at the Car Barn is a relatively minor problem, but the incident is a symbol of poor or non-existent management. How long are the citizens of East Liverpool going to put up with this?
During a recent city council discussion of the refuse department, Councilman Ray Perorazio insisted that the city should "get out of the garbage business." At least in the newspaper account, he offered no substantial reason for it. In fact, he was quoted as saying that the refuse workers "do a very good job."
So why is council talking about refuse at all? By council's own admission, the department works very well. The question is, why aren't they talking about eliminating the street department? Where was Supervisor Talbott? For all the good street workers do in this town, we could easily replace the department with outside contractors. Even a gang of high school kids on summer vacation would do a better job than we're getting now.
The fact of the matter is that citizens elect mayors and council members to oversee the management and operation of the city. Where are our elected officials when it comes to the street department? Why aren't they working overtime to figure out how to solve this serious problem? Forget the refuse department guys. Slap them on the wrists if you have to, but the real problem is with streets. Fix the broken wheel, not the good one.

20 Comments:
The streets are certainly a matter we could talk about all day. Simply put, they are horrible and the "NO MONEY" issue doesn't cut it as far as i'm concerned. It's an embarrassment and the mayor and entire street department should be ashamed.
My main point in replying is your statement about employees drinking on the job. There was never any PROOF that someone was drinking on the job. I know the facts are that a case of beer was in the refridgerator with a couple missing. What this probably means to me is that they accepted the "tip" of beer and it was placed in the refridgerator. I have heard it was given to an employee who is no longer employed by the city. After sitting in there for months and months, i'm sure at the end of someone's shift, they probably took a couple at the end of the day and consumed them off city property. I know alot of employees who work in that department. I can't think of ONE who would be dumb enough to drink while on duty at the car barn or anywhere else. I agree that gifts such as beer should be discouraged from residents. However, not allowing these guys to accept "WATER??" I mean, come on. Are we in grade school again? The director was reprimanded. The information has been given to the men. No alcohol accepted as gratuity. That should be the end of it. If it happens again, the entire crew is terminated on that particular truck. But telling these guys they can't take a cup of coffee or hot chocolate in the winter or water in the summer. Ryan Estell needs to get a damn life. Discipline according to the policy and state your expectations for the future. If it's violated, then terminate someone. You'd be surprised how quickly troops march in line when someone gets terminated for not marching right.
Kramer--
I see your point, but try to see the situation from the point of view of the service director. There really is no reason why city employees of any department should accept gifts or tips. Rather than specify the types of gifts that are good and those that are bad, his decision is simply to eliminate the practice entirely. That heads off any potential problems that could come from accepting gifts in the future. By eliminating all gifts, the policy is clear and precise.
I agree with you that a couple of beers missing from a six pack doesn't mean that workers are drinking on the job, but it doesn't look good. At the very least it suggests that workers COULD BE drinking on the job, and that's enough to warrant intervention.
It might be a good idea to see this move in a larger context. We have a street department known for doing nothing, and the supervisor bears responsibility for this dubious reputation. Were I the mayor, I'd have fired the supervisor years ago along with most of the street department workers, but Ryan works for the mayor and must go about things the way he is told. I can only assume that's what's happening here. Obviously, I don't know the ins and outs here, but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.
As for the mayor, he really needs to take care of this mess sooner rather than later. The people of this city deserve a functional street department. In this case, the shit runs uphill.
M, your last point is the best. Where has the mayor disappeared to? Maybe he has given up hope of getting reelected.
Butch--
I fully expect the mayor to step in and do something drastic with the street department very soon. He has no choice.
The Mayor is an enabler to this nonsense. If you talk to him about anything his answer is, "we don't have the money." So when the street department supervisor asks for hot patch or roads paved and the Mayor says, "we don't have the money," what do you expect him to do? I think the Mayor and the Supervisor should be fired.
M.
I'm sorry, but I have to TOTALLY disagree with you on the trash department. I couldn't tell you how many times I've had to call to inform the city that my trash was not picked up. I've even had one woman pretty much accuse me of not having my trash out in time, when infact I could see 7 different properties in which the trash had not been picked up.
Once the reply I received was, "Well, we haven't had any other complaints." Ok, so since you haven't had any other complaints, please allow me to speak with my neighbors and we'll see what we can do to correct the complaint problem. Within an hour they had received 4 additional calls. What, since no one else is complaining that means I don't have a right to complain that you failed to pick my garbage up?
I've even been infomed that there is a "2 can" limit. HELLO!!!! A 2 can limit for a family of six who compacts their garbage and recycles their popcans? Yeah, the six of us were limited to the same amount of garbage that the widow next door was limited to. I don't think so!
I've said for years that I would like to subcontract the garbage out, but the problem is the city still has their fingers in there, and as long as you have water, you're paying for trash; there's no way around it.
Although I greatly appreciate the gentlemen that do haul away the garbage, I am not in the least bit happy with the customer service that is recieved over the phone.
I'm glad I don't know who the woman is that answers the phone for the garbage department, because there have been times when I really wanted to "reach out and touch someone!"
I want a garbage company who doesn't use my "living on a hill" as an excuse to not come get the garbage. Excuse me, I may live on a hill, but I'm expected to do my job regardless of where I live, and I expect you to do the same. If the city expects me to drive down the back alley to get to and from work, then I expect the city to drive down the back alley to get their work done too.
I can understand situations in which we get 36 inches of snow over night, but the city REALLY needs to work on some things, and collecting garbage on a regular basis is one of them.
I don't want to hear that my trash can was "too heavy" when my 10 year-old-son was the one who hauled it to the curb. If he can haul it to the curb, surely a couple of grown men can lift it and dump it into the truck!
Before you complain about your city refuse department, consider this: I live in the township and contract with one of the local firms for trash removal.
I get ONE container (it's a large one on wheels that holds about three bags) and it costs me $34.34 for two months. I had an extra bag one day that didn't fit inside so I left it out...I got a $5 bill for that ONE BAG!
My bill has gone up pretty much every year I think but the service doesn't improve. My can that the company provides is a mess, the bottom and wheels falling off (and although I would think their employees could see this, it is not replaced).
My sister lives in the city and says your garbage company picks up ANYTHING.
So, maybe you better consider yourself lucky.
Isn't always greener,
I've recently relocated and haven't had to deal with the city's garbage issue. I now have no trash compactor and no longer recycle my pop cans. Our garbage still fits into ONE big green trash can, as opposed to the 2-3 smaller ones we used to use, and that was with compacting and recycling.
I guess the difference is we still pay a municipality to haul the garbage away every week, but the municipality has chosen to sub-contract it out. Although they do not come at the same time each week, they do come the same day each week.
I've dealt with the new garbage company for 3 months now, and thus far I have no complaints.
It's always a shock to me how few people recycle in our area, but given the growing conservatism of our population, it shouldn't surprise anyone.
I typically produce one small bag of trash per week, not even close to a full can. Glass, plastic, and metal cans and jars I take down to the Second Street recycle bins. When I see the amount of trash some of my neighbors set out per week, it almost sickens me. First, I marvel at how someone can produce so much waste in a week. Second, I wonder why anyone would want to be such a slob.
M,
I also recycle every week. I produce very little trash and take full advantage of the city's recycling program.
I hope you aren't lumping together people that don't recycle must be conservatives and therefore slobs. That's quite the assumption if you ask me. I am a political conservative that recycles everything.
Keep up the talk of the city's streets, someone has to, the paper sure won't.
I recycle too--
My experience with most conservatives is that they think it's their god-given right to spoil the Earth. They usually are against any type of environmentalism, of which recycling is a part. In fact, the majority of the conservatives I know are blatantly anti-environment.
You seem to be a happy exception, or else the conservatives I have known are not typical.
Vandelay--
There is a great deal that can be done to maintain our streets that costs nothing. For example, the brick portion of Fourth Street could be completely repaired without spending a dime. All it takes is for the street department workers to get out of their trucks and use their hands to pick up the bricks, flatten the substrate, and replace the bricks. Also, ditching and storm sewer maintenance is an essential part of keeping our residential streets intact. We already pay the men, and we have the equipment required to do the job, but do you see any of this getting done? Of course not. This has to change, and because of the do-nothing culture that has been allowed to develop, change will have to come from the top.
Matt, Repairing the brick portion of Fourth Street is not a simple fix. If you would like to meet for coffee and talk about what it would take to fix it. I would explain it in detail.
bud--
I'm talking mainly about repairs to the washboard surface of Fourth between Washington and Market Streets. How complicated can this be? And are you saying our street department guys couldn't do this?
Matt, Fourth street has deteriorated to a point where patching won't work. Thousands of the bricks are broken and the base needs replaced. Even if it were to be aspalted over the holes would be back in a short period of time. If you would like we could get more folks involved, form a committee to get it declared a historic byway. The committee could apply for grants and ask for donations to restore it.
Just so everyone knows, a few years back a grant was obtained to fix fourth street. However a sitting councilperson at the time, Linda Zeigler, called the state and advised them that this was an historical brick street and they pulled all funding for the project. You can write to the Ohio Department of Development to varify this. Thats what I did.
Matt- what happened to my comment? There was nothing libelous or slanderous- alot of truths. Isn't that what this blog is about?
In the know--
There is no comment in the queue from you, so I don't know. Send it again.
Checked--
I remember the situation. Linda's heart may have been in the right place, even if her brain was not. It's too bad that one person can torpedo such a project.
bud--
Ideally, I'd like to see a complete resetting of brick (preferably red) of Fourth Street from Market to Broadway, including Broadway up to Fifth. How did Midland get all that wonderful brick paving done? Did Nick Trombetta pay for it or what? Do you know?
Matt, I don't know anything about Midland's revitalization funding. I think the downtown looks great.If a project were put together for Fourth St. I would like it to include the short brick section of Broadway and a planter or fountain at the intersection of Fourth and Broadway.
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