Christmas, Texas style
by M. Stewart
The pastor of a 13,000-member Dallas "mega-church," Dr. Robert Jeffress, has decided to go on the offensive against businesses that do not display appropriate holiday decorations. Jeffress has created a Web site he calls GrinchAlert, which is designed to finger those businesses that do not overtly show their support for the annual buying-and-selling orgy known as Christmas.
The First Baptist Church of Dallas encourages followers of Jesus of Nazareth, a Jewish prophet executed nearly 2,000 years ago, to "Help us keep Christmas EVERYWHERE" by adding the names of "naughty" businesses or organizations to an online list for the purpose of public ridicule. Oh yeah, you can also list businesses that do spread the Christmas message with authorized decorations.
For the record, I am neither a Christian nor a Texan, but I do celebrate the holiday season because it is a tradition in my culture. I recognize the value of the teachings of Jesus, and I study ancient Jewish and Christian writings as part of my personal and professional interest in ancient literatures.
I recognize that many modern Christians are good, honest people who harm no one. I also recognize that the world is filled with those who would do anything to gain power, money, and influence by exploiting religious faith. For the latter, ignorance is the world's most valuable commodity. These are the people I oppose, and it doesn't matter whether they are Christians, Muslims, Scientologists, or Satanists.
As an American, I oppose those who attempt to force or coerce others to worship or believe as they do. When religion moves beyond the personal, it becomes political and commercial, and when that happens, religion is a negative, destructive force.
Am I suggesting that Robert Jeffress and his mega-church represent a negative, destructive force? Absolutely. By attempting to damage business owners and organizations that do not overtly demonstrate adherence to his own religious beliefs, Jeffress is abusing his power and influence as a religious leader. At the same time, he is attempting to elevate his status within his faith by broadcasting his malicious intent on KCBI 90.9 FM, described as "one of the largest Christian radio stations in the country." The radio station also is in the business of selling Jesus for money.
To me it is nothing short of disgusting for members of a church to celebrate the birth of Jesus by actively attempting to damage business owners who do not put up Christmas decorations. I should think that true followers of Jesus would be appalled by this behavior as well.
The pastor of a 13,000-member Dallas "mega-church," Dr. Robert Jeffress, has decided to go on the offensive against businesses that do not display appropriate holiday decorations. Jeffress has created a Web site he calls GrinchAlert, which is designed to finger those businesses that do not overtly show their support for the annual buying-and-selling orgy known as Christmas.The First Baptist Church of Dallas encourages followers of Jesus of Nazareth, a Jewish prophet executed nearly 2,000 years ago, to "Help us keep Christmas EVERYWHERE" by adding the names of "naughty" businesses or organizations to an online list for the purpose of public ridicule. Oh yeah, you can also list businesses that do spread the Christmas message with authorized decorations.
For the record, I am neither a Christian nor a Texan, but I do celebrate the holiday season because it is a tradition in my culture. I recognize the value of the teachings of Jesus, and I study ancient Jewish and Christian writings as part of my personal and professional interest in ancient literatures.
I recognize that many modern Christians are good, honest people who harm no one. I also recognize that the world is filled with those who would do anything to gain power, money, and influence by exploiting religious faith. For the latter, ignorance is the world's most valuable commodity. These are the people I oppose, and it doesn't matter whether they are Christians, Muslims, Scientologists, or Satanists.
As an American, I oppose those who attempt to force or coerce others to worship or believe as they do. When religion moves beyond the personal, it becomes political and commercial, and when that happens, religion is a negative, destructive force.
Am I suggesting that Robert Jeffress and his mega-church represent a negative, destructive force? Absolutely. By attempting to damage business owners and organizations that do not overtly demonstrate adherence to his own religious beliefs, Jeffress is abusing his power and influence as a religious leader. At the same time, he is attempting to elevate his status within his faith by broadcasting his malicious intent on KCBI 90.9 FM, described as "one of the largest Christian radio stations in the country." The radio station also is in the business of selling Jesus for money.
To me it is nothing short of disgusting for members of a church to celebrate the birth of Jesus by actively attempting to damage business owners who do not put up Christmas decorations. I should think that true followers of Jesus would be appalled by this behavior as well.
posted by M. | 10:32 AM
63 Comments:
Jesus is the reason for the season!
There's nothing wrong with what this pastor is doing. It's really not news at all so why even bother getting yourself upset about it?
M.
Well, I'm in Texas, and this is the first I've heard about this Mega-church. Knowing little about the story, and knowing what's going on locally, I need to ask a few questions.
Do you know when this alleged "ban" began? Are you aware that there is allegedly a school in Florida that banned Santa and Christmas colors? Are you aware that that story has spread nationally? http://nation.foxnews.com/culture/2010/11/29/school-bans-christmas-colors
I first heard of the Christmas color ban when my son came home from school and informed me a of his teachers had shared the news with them. Her response, and what appears to be the response of many of the Jr. High students, appears to be to wear Christmas colors in response to the ban in Florida. Knowing this, I have to wonder if this mega-church isn't just simply responding (in an odd way, I must admit) to the ban of Christmas colors in Florida?
It seems the concensus here in Texas is that Christianity is under attack and that "Freedom of Religion" applies to everyone except Christians. Then again, I believe that same argument can be said about Christians world-wide. There's a groupthink that appears to exist in which everyone else is free to celebrate their holidays or dress according to their religion, but the rights of Christians are being restricted more and more. One example comes to mind with the students who were banned from wearing American Flags on Cinco De Mayo. http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local-beat/Students-Wearing-American-Flag-Shirts-Sent-Home-92945969.html
Anyway, knowing about the alleged ban of Christmas colors in Florida, and knowing that individuals locally are responding to that ban, I have to wonder if this isn't the mega-church's way of also responding to the ban. When did the ban begin? Why did you choose not to share the link to website you were referring to? (Now I'm going to have to google it. ;)
More importantly, WHY is it that Americans are getting more and more fed up with losing the right to wear Christmas colors or the American flag? I believe it is because Americans are getting sick of being asked to tollerate too much. It seems to me as if for the sake of "tollerance" we are slowly losing our freedoms. We have become a nation of "Oh, I shouldn't do that because it might offend someone." Have we gone too far with the "tollerance" message? (For some reason the mosque near Ground Zero comes to mind here.)
Now, after I get through finals and write my last paper, I'm going to have to check out this mega-church and the reason behind what you're saying. Personally, I would much rather shop somewhere that supports my religious beliefs and shares my way of thinking, but that's a personal choice.
Comment--
First of all, it is news, or I wouldn't have been able to read about it in the news. Second, there is something wrong with it from my point of view, and since I'm the one who hosts this blog, I decided to express that concern.
You say there is nothing wrong with this, yet you leave nothing to explain your position. What credibility does your comment have?
weaverdelooh--
So your point is that two wrongs make a right? It's just as wrong for anyone to ban the celebration of Christmas.
Ok, is what he's doing illegal? Dishonest? What part of nothing wrong don't you understand?
Comment--
My post for the day answers your questions. I explained my point of view. Sorry you didn't read it or understand it. I'm trying hard to find useful information in your comment. Are you saying that because it's not illegal, economic coercion to force your beliefs on others is not dishonest? As an American, I recognize religious freedom, and that includes the right not to put up Christmas decorations at my business.
Why is it that so many Christians can't mind their own business and let others live the way they wish?
The birth of Jesus is the meaning of Christmas and why many different religous groupscelebrate Christmas. I'm not exactly sure what red and green would have to do with the Christian view of the holiday. I would think that it is more a secular view of the holiday, but who can tell anymore. I'm also not sure why business wouldn't want to buy into the commercialism of Christmas seeing how the holiday lines the pockets of many retailers. However, having said all of this I am getting tired of people telling me what and how I should believe. How in the world does saying Merry Christmas offend anyone? On the other hand, if a person chooses to say Happy Holidays...How does that offend anyone either? We have become a people who get their feelings hurt way to easily and get offended over the stupidest things.
How--
I agree, and I think most rational people would. The prohibition of Christmas colors and Santa Claus is absurd. Santa Claus is a combination of pagan Norse and Catholic mythology. The modern Santa has god-like, omniscient powers and is a judge of children's behavior. At least in theory, Santa rewards good behavior with a magical deposit of toys, and bad behavior with nothing but a symbol of despair--a dirty lump of coal. The cult of Santa Claus is most conspicuously maintained by the American merchant class, which uses him as the primary symbol of spending and generosity. Although the myth is connected to Christianity through the Catholic story of St. Nicholas, the modern Santa has nothing to do with the birth of Jesus.
How does it offend? said...
"How in the world does saying Merry Christmas offend anyone?"
I agree with you. As long as you concede that someone saying "There is no God and Jesus is a douchebag" is equally unoffensive.
The Groom..Really????....How about you are a douchebag. That sentence in itself is offensive whether you put Jesus in it or not. Totally opposite ends of the spectrum don't you think? If you don't believe in God that is your own issue, but Merry Christmas to you and have a happy holiday!! :)
How does it offend? said...
The birth of Jesus is the meaning of Christmas and why many different religous groupscelebrate Christmas.
[end quote]
The exact date of said birth is unknown. However, it has been shown that it probably was not at this time of the year.
There was a time when Christmas was banned in parts of New England since it was viewed as non Christian.
[quote]
However, having said all of this I am getting tired of people telling me what and how I should believe. How in the world does saying Merry Christmas offend anyone? On the other hand, if a person chooses to say Happy Holidays...How does that offend anyone either?
[end quote]
You can believe anything you want.
Saying Merry Christmas can offend a good many people since they do not celebrate Christmas, for personal reasons or religious reasons. Saying Happy Holidays is far less offensive to people since a good many religions do have holidays of some sort this time of the year.
[end of quote]
[quote]
We have become a people who get their feelings hurt way to easily and get offended over the stupidest things.
[end quote]
Respecting the beliefs or non beliefs of others is stupid?
weaverdelooh said...
Do you know when this alleged "ban" began? Are you aware that there is allegedly a school in Florida that banned Santa and Christmas colors? Are you aware that that story has spread nationally? http://nation.foxnews.com/culture/2010/11/29/school-bans-christmas-colors
[end quote]
Ahhhhh, the latest chapter of the annual Fox News December War.
i sometimes say merry christmas to strangers. thing is, how would i know if i'm offending him/her if i don't know them? if i am offending him/her, then him/her should suck it up and be understanding and let the moment pass without feeling offended because he/she doesn't know me and vice versa. people are too obsessed with themselves and their beliefs. share the air. be understanding. be accepting. and shut the hell up.
buckeyeelo....How about this scenario???? Say for example you are a huge Ohio State Fan and I am a Michigan fan. I say to you that Michigan is the best team by far. Are you offended? Or perhaps you say to me that the Buckeyes are the bomb this year and you have just offended me. Hmmmmmmm.....do you punch me in the face, do you just agree to disagree, or do you simplye ignore me. The point is if you are offended by Merry Christmas I suggest you hibernate this holiday season, because a lot of people are not going to quit saying it just to make you happy. Get it now????
Matt, I'm a Christian. I do not get offended when some one says happy holiday, Happy Hanukkah, Happy Ali, or whatever they wish. I simply pray for them as I do for anyone who says Merry Christmas. Matt, I refuse to look up this website you refer to. But I must ask since you said why can't Christians mind their own business, Is the website trying to get you the non believer to quit shopping there or the ones who think a like (Christians). If the answer is other Christians, I believe they seem to be minding their (Christians) own business. For those of you worrying about Christians offending you or others how about that atheists billboard that was erected? Or the school in Florida, prayer being taken out of school, or anything that must offend a Christian?? You guys like sticking up for the ones being offended, How about standing up for the Christian too? Or are you, what's that word so many of you tag Christians with when the mess up?
buckeyeelo,
(Q)Respecting the beliefs or non beliefs of others is stupid? (EQ)
No it's not stupid, but what is, is when people like you don't cast the same stones to all!!!
Amen to Jeff M.....sorry if that offended anyone. bahahahahaha
Nugget--
I'm not sticking up for anyone. I just find it disgusting that a Christian pastor would celebrate the birth of Christ by trying to get his followers to punish business people for not putting up Christmas decorations. It's so petty and ridiculous. Why would the minister want to stain the holiday? Why would he want to make himself look like such an intolerant fool?
It's amazing to me the lengths people will go to push their fantasies on others.
Matt,
I have no clue why he'd do this, other than to get those who think like him(Christians) not be supportive of retail who take advantage of the birth of Christ but don't believe. Pretty hypocritical of any retailer who does this..
I have to disagree with this next comment in today's world anyhow.
(Q)
The modern Santa has god-like, omniscient powers and is a judge of children's behavior. At least in theory, Santa rewards good behavior with a magical deposit of toys, and bad behavior with nothing but a symbol of despair--a dirty lump of coal.(EQ)
In today's world a lot more kids should be getting the lump. Don't you think? But it's completely gone astray, Lil buckeyeelo is going to get just as many gifts good or bad. Probably more if bad so Bride and Groom don't have to listen to him cry at the end of the day.
Matt,
(Q)
It's amazing to me the lengths people will go to push their fantasies on others.(EQ)
Again.
Who is the others you refer to in this incident, you or other Christians???
When I say "fantasies," I refer to the imaginary gods of religious people. Even though I understand the purpose of these fantastic beings, it's clear that they are not real.
Matt,
That's your opinion.. I respect that, though I disagree.. The article is about this pastor, his website and you saying he's pushing beliefs upon you or trying to get you to boycott retail.. IS he trying to get Like believers to boycott or you?? If it's like believers, he's not pushing anything on anyone.. That's my point!!!
No, it's not an opinion at all. No one has ever been able to show any evidence that gods exist outside of stories. They are fictional characters. The burden of proof is on those who make the fantastic claim, not upon those who do not accept the fantastic claim. If gods were real, then no one would have to have "faith" to believe in them.
Matt,
Again is he pushing them on you or Like believers??? And yes it's your opinion.. Please, answer my question that I've asked 3-4 time.
He is attempting to punish business owners for not hanging Christmas decorations. It doesn't make any difference which people he is trying to persuade to join in the persecution. It's still a ridiculous way to celebrate the birth of Christ. And yes, that much IS my opinion.
As for the other thing, the mere claim that 2 + 2 = 7 doesn't make it true, even if a billion people think it does. It's not my opinion that 2 + 2 = 4.
Well then if it's other believers, he's not pushing his beliefs upon you or anyone else who doesn't believe the way he does.. Isn't that you and others stated earlier, he was pushing them upon you??
I'd like to hear your theory on how you and I were created.
2+2=4 AND December 25th is Christmas (celebration of the birth of Christ)! Merry Christmas
Nugget--
Ok, so you think the Texas preacher is doing the work of the Lord. Good for you. Personally, I would be ashamed to do such things in the name of Jesus.
I was created when my father's sperm fertilized an egg in my mother's body. Upon fertilization, cell division began, and DNA provided instructions for how those cells would grow and differentiate into the various parts of my body. After approximately nine months, my infant body was pushed out. I suspect you were created the same way.
Bottom Line: It's a non-issue. Who cares?
If you don't care, quit leaving comments. I won't make the mistake of taking you seriously again.
Today's Americans are to worried about being politically correct and fear speaking their minds. This is detrimental to our freedoms and America as a whole.
You're absolutely right, Fred.
Matt,
Sorry, when I was speaking of you and I, I was meaning man.. All I originally pointed out was this pastor was asking fellow believers to join his cause. And he wasn't pushing anything on those who didn't believe, as you and others have stated..
Matt & Fred, Speaking his mind is what this pastor seems to be doing..
"M. said...
So your point is that two wrongs make a right? It's just as wrong for anyone to ban the celebration of Christmas."
My point is that just like the businesses have a right not to decorate for Christmas, churches (individuals) should also have a right to choose which businesses they would like to patronize.
Honestly though, I still haven't researched the story, so I still know very little about it.
What I do know though is just because someone decorates for Christmas doesn't make them a Christian. So, I'm not really sure what the pastor's point is in boycotting the undecorated stores.
As far as I'm concerned, this isn't an issue of two wrongs making a right. This is an issue of a business having the freedom of choice not to decorate for Christmas and a church having the freedom of choice to not patronize such a business.
I guess my question to you is, "Why is it ok for a business not to decorate for Christmas, but it is not ok for a church to choose not to patronize such a business?"
M.
I just checked out the website you were referring to. (Sorry, I did not see the link on your site earlier and just spent 10 minutes trying to find it.)
I have to admit, I'm sitting here chuckling at the discussion this blog has brought over a total of eight businesses that made it on the "naughty list."
Two "businesses" are City Halls, so there will be no choice for the residents of those cities to choose whether or not to patronize City Hall.
One business is a very popular department store, known for throwing a HUGE parade in New York City each Thanksgiving. Just thinking about that parade makes me think about Christmas.
Another business offers "Christmas Wrapping" on their website. Yes, they actually use the term "Christmas."
One set of stores I grew up patronizing, and still do to this day. Both decorate for the Christmas season.
The only two businesses I am not familiar with include a book store and a restaurant. I know what the book store is, I'm just not familiar with whether or not they deocrate for the holidays, etc.
As for the restaurant, even the person making the post claims they have decorated for Christmas; they just didn't like the fact that they were expected to say, "Happy Holidays" instead of Merry Christmas.
Basically what I'm saying is that all of this great discussion is over ONE bookstore that I know very little about, and I imagine with a little bit of research the argument that they have not supported the Christmas season would become null and void.
Ha, ha, you're good Matt! You've generated over 30 comments for something that appears to hold no merit (meaning Grinch Alert).
If I had any arguement to the issue it would be that MY freedom of religion should not be restricted. A business should not be allowed to refrain me, or any Christian employee, from wishing someone a Merry Christmas.
SOME FACTS:
Here's something you most likely have never been taught in school or
even in church.
Many of these same Christians who founded America actually banned the
celebration of Christmas.
Yes, you read that right. Christmas was banned in America, not by any representative of the American Civil Liberties Union, but by Christians themselves.
It was actually against the law to observe Christmas, and people could be fined if they happened to take part in any celebration.
This stunning fact is just one of hundreds pointed out in "Shocked by the Bible: The Most Astonishing Facts You've Never Been Told" by Joe Kovacs, the executive news editor of WND.
"Despite the assumptions of many, Christmas was not a widespread holiday in much of colonial America," says Kovacs. "Shocking as it sounds, followers of Jesus Christ in both America and England helped pass laws making it illegal to observe Christmas."
And it wasn't just Americans in the 1600s who had "issues" with Christmas.
On Dec. 25, 1789, the first Christmas under the brand-new Constitution, the United States Congress was actually in session, with no day off for any holiday. In fact, the U.S. did not even make Christmas a federal holiday
until 1870.
Title: Please Don't Wish Me a Merry Christmas; A Critical History of the Separation of Church and State
Author: Stephen M. Feldman
Publisher: New York University Press
Date Published: September 1998
ISBN: 0814726844
Abstract: A Jew defends aggressive separation of church and state.
More info at Amazon Bools:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0814726844/qid=1104061467/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/103-7670162-7678206?v=glance&s=books
**********
(fwd) review of Please Don't Wish Me a Merry Christmas
Eugene Volokh VOLOKH at LAW.UCLA.EDU
Wed Apr 16 17:55:03 PDT 1997
http://lists.ucla.edu/pipermail/religionlaw/1997-April/008157.html
A brief history of Christmas in America
This Season's War Cry: Commercialize Christmas, or Else
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/04/opinion/04sun3.html
weaverdelooh--
The web site was just announced yesterday. It says much that our Christian readers would spend all of their time defending this sort of behavior. I guess whatever advances the cause must be a good thing. Ethics be damned.
Buckeye--
Indeed, Christmas was not observed in Puritan New England. I've always felt that if Jesus really was a god, he'd punish the United States for perverting the meaning of his birth and turning it into such a materialistic orgy. Christians should show their devotion to Jesus by purchasing an iPad for their kids this year, but only from dealers who display the appropriate Christmas decorations. Pass right on by those stores that don't. It's a spiritual thing that people like us wouldn't understand.
Peace maker that I am, I just want to wish Matt and Buckeyeelo a very Merry and Holy Christmas. I hope that the good Lord, the Word, the Logos, the One might touch their blackened hearts and turn them away from evil, toward the "light!"
And, yes, as someone wrote previously "Jesus" is the reason for the season. And, yes, I am jealous because Matt and ELO can piss off more people in one thread than I can in and entire blog.
M said... "I've always felt that if Jesus really was a god, he'd punish the United States for perverting the meaning of his birth and turning it into such a materialistic orgy. Christians should show their devotion to Jesus by purchasing an iPad for their kids this year, but only from dealers who display the appropriate Christmas decorations. Pass right on by those stores that don't. It's a spiritual thing that people like us wouldn't understand."
Matt, you never fail to make me giggle. Honestly, you would porbably be suprised how much I agree with you on what you refer to as a "materialistic orgy."
As for the "ethical" argument, in my opinion there isn't one. From my observation, I do not believe the church's argument to boycot the businesses listed on the "naughty list" holds merit. As far as I'm concerned, their project is dead in the water.
To me, it just sounds like a website that has wasted enough of our time.
Merry Christmas Matt!
"...Generated over 30 comments..." Most of the comments were Matt.
The Christmas season only appears greedy, materialistic and selfish to those who are greedy, materialistic and selfish. Most people shop to give to others during the season of giving. Only those few greedy materialistic folks fight the crowds to buy for themselves. To them the season appears very different.
To those sour, unfortunate, mislead and unhappy people, watch A Christmas Carol this Christmas season and Merry Christmas.
What about eastern orthodox christians? They celebrate christmas a few weeks later as they run on a different calendar, so maybe they won't decorate until after December 25. Should they be banned too? Just wondering.
Happy Yule!
I usually disagree with Matt about 85-90% of the time. However, I read this blog very often as I do find it interesting. I do like to hear and understand a different opinion. He has also inspired me to think about blogging myself.
Merry Christmas
Bob said...
Peace maker that I am,
[end quote]
Based on your posts especially on the site you were banned from a few months ago, peacemaker is the last thing you are. Claiming to be something you aren't does make you
something though. I will be polite and not use the word.
[Quote]
I just want to wish Matt and Buckeyeelo a very Merry and Holy Christmas.
[end quote]
Contradicting your claim to be a peacemaker again I see.
If he really wanted to give good cheer and wishes a simple:
I wish you and yours a happy holiday season and a healthy, prosperous, happy New Years."
Instead you offer something that best fits the following:
I don't care that you are Christian, or not. I am Christian, and I wish you the peace and prosperity that I find in my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. May this Blessed holiday find you and your loved ones in good health and encircled in all of the love and happiness that they desire. Merry Christmas."
There isn't a positive vibration to that. It is intolerant and insulting,
even to many who might celebrate Christmas as a Christian Holiday.
[quote]
I hope that the good Lord, the Word, the Logos, the One might touch their blackened hearts and turn them away from evil, toward the "light!"
[end quote]
Matt has said he is a atheist, thus your comments about would be insulting to him. I am not a atheist but I also am not a Christian as such.
For you and those who insist on being rude to others with your insistence on Merry Christmas consider the following: When YOUR personal view surpasses the view of another, then you are the one being rude and inconsiderate. That is precisely why you should not be wishing people who are not Christian a Merry Christmas. In expressing greetings and good wishes, the concept is to put yourself in the perspective of the recipient, and wish them what would be from *their* point of view (not yours) a happy holiday. It is the showing of consideration that makes a holiday greeting pleasant rather than offensive.
I am not surte how my reply to Bob came out being a anon post. I do recall signing it as buckeyeelo. I don't know what happened but It was from me.
Comment on Comments said...
. . . To those sour, unfortunate, mislead and unhappy people, watch A Christmas Carol this Christmas season and Merry Christmas.
[end quote]
I will say to you the same I said to Bob:
If he really wanted to give good cheer and wishes a simple:
I wish you and yours a happy holiday season and a healthy, prosperous, happy New Years."
Instead you offer something that best fits the following:
I don't care that you are Christian, or not. I am Christian, and I wish you the peace and prosperity that I find in my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. May this Blessed holiday find you and your loved ones in good health and encircled in all of the love and happiness that they desire. Merry Christmas."
For you and those who insist on being rude to others with your insistence on Merry Christmas consider the following: When YOUR personal view surpasses the view of another, then you are the one being rude and inconsiderate. That is precisely why you should not be wishing people who are not Christian a Merry Christmas. In expressing greetings and good wishes, the concept is to put yourself in the perspective of the recipient, and wish them what would be from *their* point of view (not yours) a happy holiday. It is the showing of consideration that makes a holiday greeting pleasant rather than offensive.
buckeye--
I agree with you in theory, but most American non-Christians recognize and celebrate Christmas. So when I say "Merry Christmas" to someone, I'm not making a religious and political statement. It's the equivalent of "Have a nice day" during the Christmas season. I could say, "Happy Holidays," of course, but I don't. These days, that seems more like a political statement. It's very unhealthy for people to be so sensitive and politically correct for such a trivial reason. Saying "Merry Christmas" is never meant as offensive, so why should people insist on being offended by it?
The case described in my original post is something entirely different. I know that you see the difference, but it has been very interesting to watch our Christian readers deflect, deny, and avoid the conformity issues it raises. I suspect the reason is that Christians tend to be strong conformists, and they want everyone else to be too.
Buckeyeelo, you must be a very sour, unhappy, tormented individual. Your pain is your own making. Merry Christmas Mr. Scrooge.
Hey Groom,
Thanks for showing your class with your comment. That great flushing sound was any respect I had for any of your past and future comments.
Please people quit offending buckeyeelo with Merry Christmas and be tolerant of him and his comments throughout this blog toward/about Christians. Once again please do this on his behalf, because he's not about to be tolerant of you. Merry Christmas to all but buckeyeelo, may he have whatever type of day he prefers.
M. said...
buckeye--
. . . Saying "Merry Christmas" is never meant as offensive, so why should people insist on being offended by it?
[end quote]
It can be and is frequently highly offensive to those who are not Christian and even some who are.
Not all Christian celebrate Christmas.
That you may not mean it to be or think it should be is irrelevant.
I stand by my comments on the subject. They are based on many years of chats and interactions with people as well as reading a great deal by people who explain why they find such to be offensive.
BTW, there are those who do say Merry Christmas knowing full well it will offend. You can find them in many discussion forums, newsgroups and even here.
Comment on Comments said...
Buckeyeelo, you must be a very sour, unhappy, tormented individual. Your pain is your own making. Merry Christmas Mr. Scrooge.
[end quote]
Soorry but I don't really qualify for any of the above in your comment. I see though as is the case so often here you didn't address anything I actually said. Nothing new in that.
Buckeyeelo you are what is called a blowhard, much talk, says little. Get a job dude or are you too old for anyone to hire you? I'll bet that's it, you're too old and crazy to get a real job. You may quote me.
"Buckeyeelo": Dude, I was out on the farm a few weeks ago drinking adult beverages with a mutual pal who recalled when you and your posse bet him that the Yankees would beat the Pirates..you know the year.
What he remembers was that shortly after the immortal Maz nailed that home run over the left field wall, you appeared on the porch with the five bucks and paid your debt in full. He was much impressed because he doesn't remember the rest of the posse paying off their debt.
So, here's to you, dude, your thinking is a bit fuzzy but you are a man of your word...I'm assuming you've maintained that character trait over the long, long decades?
I would so love to run into a person who is "fequently highly offended" by being greeted with "Merry Christmas". Once they were "highly offended" by the common seasonal greeting, I would then follow up with something so truly highly offensive that all drunken sailors, alive and dead, would blush. Then they may recognize the difference.
P.S. Buckeyeelo, I think I saw David Barton under your bed.
you're all insane! jesus christmas christ! one comment here and there is fine, but...but, jesus... enough is enough! go outside, draw, paint, look at a leaf, read a book, cook a new meal, write a poem! when it comes to gifts, here's something that would prove you're not materialistic: make something for someone. do something nice. i realize this is hard (very hard if you have kids because kids, innocent and beautiful and as sensitive as they are to common thinking and behavior, which thus perpetuates the marketplace), but jesus christmas christ! stop going to Wailing Wall!
Jeff M,
You sentiments should be read to your children on Christmas Day. Lovely.
apples,
i have said pretty much the same thing to them, but i took the thorns off the roses.
Comment on Comments said...
Buckeyeelo you are what is called a blowhard, much talk, says little. Get a job dude or are you too old for anyone to hire you? I'll bet that's it, you're too old and crazy to get a real job. You may quote me.
[end quote]
what I qualify as is someone who annoys the hell out of you and reduces you to a impotent fool with regards to actual valid replies. Thus all you can do is employ attacks and insults which only shows how impotent you really are about the topic.
Offensive End said...
I would so love to run into a person who is "fequently highly offended" by being greeted with "Merry Christmas". Once they were "highly offended" by the common seasonal greeting, I would then follow up with something so truly highly offensive that all drunken sailors, alive and dead, would blush. Then they may recognize the difference.
[end quote]
That you would behave in such a way is not surprising to me in the least. It would be expected. You don't know any better.
[quote]
P.S. Buckeyeelo, I think I saw David Barton under your bed.
[end quote]
You need to get your meds refilled. You are delusional again.
Bob:
Tell Bruce I said hello and yes I do tend to do what I say I will do and I tend to honor my commitments.
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