Steelers lose/gays win
by M. Stewart
There isn't much to say about the Pittsburgh Steelers loss to the New York Jets Sunday. When you spot a desperate team 7 points in the opening 12 seconds of a game and lose by 5 points, look no further.
I can't remember the last time I saw a 97-yard kickoff return where the runner simply catches the ball and runs untouched straight to the end zone without making a cut, but that's what happened in the opening kickoff at Heinz Field. As it turned out, that 12-second special teams breakdown was the difference in the game.
Even so, you can't say the Steelers didn't have a chance. Two shots at the end zone in the final seconds came up short. The Jets made big plays when they had to; the Steelers didn't. In any sport, that adds up to a loss.
What makes matters worse is that Pittsburgh entered the game knowing that the Baltimore Ravens had beaten the New Orleans Saints. In short, there couldn't be more incentive to bring your A-game to the field. After all, the Ravens brought theirs and beat the reigning Super Bowl champs.
At the end of the day, the Steelers and the Ravens were tied for first place in the AFC North. If the Steelers manage to beat both the Carolina Panthers and Cleveland Browns to close out the season, the division is theirs due to tie-breakers. The only problem is that the Steelers consistently play down to their competition, so it's hard to predict what will happen in the next couple of weeks. On the other hand, I look for the Ravens to win out easily against Cleveland and Cincinnati.
Let's face it, there are several teams playing much better football than Pittsburgh as we approach the playoffs, so I won't be pulling out my hair if this isn't another Super Bowl year. But anything can happen in the tournament. The trick is following through and getting an invitation.
In Washington, the Senate repealed the don't-ask-don't-tell policy, so gays now can serve openly in the military. As far as I'm concerned, this is a great step forward in erasing American hypocrisy when it comes to matters of freedom.
There is absolutely no reason why any American citizen should be treated differently under the law due to sexual preference. The religious beliefs of an ancient Middle Eastern tribe should have nothing to do with it. For the military to exploit citizens by allowing them to fight and die for our country without giving them the same rights as other citizens is hypocritical and absurd.
It's about time Congress did something about a system built on lies and bigotry.
Not sure if this is a related story, but a recent Gallup Poll reveals that 40 percent of Americans still believe that the universe was created 10,000 years ago by a magic man in the sky. The poll also showed that those who believe in creationism are less educated, more religious, and more Republican than those who don't.
There isn't much to say about the Pittsburgh Steelers loss to the New York Jets Sunday. When you spot a desperate team 7 points in the opening 12 seconds of a game and lose by 5 points, look no further.
I can't remember the last time I saw a 97-yard kickoff return where the runner simply catches the ball and runs untouched straight to the end zone without making a cut, but that's what happened in the opening kickoff at Heinz Field. As it turned out, that 12-second special teams breakdown was the difference in the game.
Even so, you can't say the Steelers didn't have a chance. Two shots at the end zone in the final seconds came up short. The Jets made big plays when they had to; the Steelers didn't. In any sport, that adds up to a loss.
What makes matters worse is that Pittsburgh entered the game knowing that the Baltimore Ravens had beaten the New Orleans Saints. In short, there couldn't be more incentive to bring your A-game to the field. After all, the Ravens brought theirs and beat the reigning Super Bowl champs.
At the end of the day, the Steelers and the Ravens were tied for first place in the AFC North. If the Steelers manage to beat both the Carolina Panthers and Cleveland Browns to close out the season, the division is theirs due to tie-breakers. The only problem is that the Steelers consistently play down to their competition, so it's hard to predict what will happen in the next couple of weeks. On the other hand, I look for the Ravens to win out easily against Cleveland and Cincinnati.
Let's face it, there are several teams playing much better football than Pittsburgh as we approach the playoffs, so I won't be pulling out my hair if this isn't another Super Bowl year. But anything can happen in the tournament. The trick is following through and getting an invitation.
In Washington, the Senate repealed the don't-ask-don't-tell policy, so gays now can serve openly in the military. As far as I'm concerned, this is a great step forward in erasing American hypocrisy when it comes to matters of freedom.
There is absolutely no reason why any American citizen should be treated differently under the law due to sexual preference. The religious beliefs of an ancient Middle Eastern tribe should have nothing to do with it. For the military to exploit citizens by allowing them to fight and die for our country without giving them the same rights as other citizens is hypocritical and absurd.
It's about time Congress did something about a system built on lies and bigotry.
Not sure if this is a related story, but a recent Gallup Poll reveals that 40 percent of Americans still believe that the universe was created 10,000 years ago by a magic man in the sky. The poll also showed that those who believe in creationism are less educated, more religious, and more Republican than those who don't.
posted by M. | 7:24 AM
76 Comments:
10,000 years ago?
I find that surprising, since Jurassic Park was such a blockbuster hit and it clearly states several times that Dinosaurs were in existance 65 million years ago. Apparently those 40% need to go back and visit the Spielberg classic.
Matt, dude, these constant and ongoing attacks on believing Christians reveals a psyche in a state of disorder. I'm concerned for your well being.
Re: 'intellectuals' you should understand that a real 'intellectual' wouldn't let a fella like you, a phd teaching English in ELO, do much more than serve him coffee. A real 'intellectual' wouldn't consider anyone from ELO to be a coeval.
Furthermore, your 'attacks' on God, the Father/Son/Holy Ghost reveal a young man who is crying out for hep! Alas, the differentiation of the Logos is beyond you at this time. Consequently, while in need of salvation your psyche is so distorted and disordered it isn't possible at this time. What I'd recommend is a reading of Plato's allegory, The Cave! This will give you an analysis of the ground of the tension of existence and that's what you really need right now. Please keep in mind that Plato is the father of political science and in reading this old wrestler you will open many doors that will facilitate an understanding of man in being and community. Plato's reaction to the crisis of Athens reflects the crisis you are experiencing in your life...the loss of Nous and the diviorce of the ground.
So, we'll see how the Stillers do, they are banged up and the object of the NFL authorities, so maybe it'll be a short post season. In closing, Merry Christmas!
Bob--
One can follow the teachings of Christ -- that is, one can be a Christian -- without believing that the ancient Hebrew myths are true. The old stories are fascinating, but they are fiction.
Matt,
Again, back to the classical Greeks. The myth, my friend, is man's transmitter of the truth, the big truths of our existence. If you would spend some time with the histories of the Axial Age you can see, and spend some time with the classicists.
C'mon dude, you're an English major. You can't understand English without knowing the Greeks, Romans, Medevialists.
I wasn't talking about the Old Testament...which is God's Word as well.
M.....Do you celebrate Christmas?
Matt, since all is a fairy tale to you, How was man, birds of the sky and all living creatures created and by whom? I'm banking on you for having this answer, since your soooooooooooo smart!
Why would someone ask if another celebrated Christmas? What would be the purpose, what would one learn if they were told yes or no? Better yet, what would they think they would learn?
Fred--
If celebrating Christmas means that I exchange gifts with family members and take some time off work, then I do celebrate Christmas. Do I take part in a religious ritual that celebrates the birth of Jesus? No.
Bob--
I am a classicist. There is a difference between history and myth. At the time Genesis was composed, there was no such thing as history.
confused--
There is a difference between fairy tale and myth. I suggest that you read up on science--particularly astronomy, evolutionary biology, geology, and chemistry. Short of reading and study, you can watch appropriate science shows on TV for the basics. Some of them are very good. Also, I suggest a serious study of ancient literatures.
Funny headline:
December 18, 2010
Benedict Arnold Republicans destroy military and our national security
By Bryan Fischer, host of the daily 'Focal Point' radio talk program on AFR Talk, a division of the American Family Association.
To Buckeye and M:
I am absolutely certain neither of you have served in the military. I have and to put it kindly, based on your words, I would say you aren't the "type" who serve. Since your arrogance allows you to be experts in all subject matter, you should leave the matter of DADT to others. In matters of journalism in the journalistic hotbed of East Liverpool, or in Buckeye's case, shining the light on covert Christianity, your opinions will hold more water.
Herndon--
It's funny how people who claim to be "absolutely certain" are so often wrong.
Herndon, I read your comment over and decided you didn't say anything at all about the topic. Do you have a point, if so, what is it?
Butch--
I think Herndon is a homophobe who just wanted to launch a personal attack on those who disagree with him. We get a lot of that here.
Butch:
I'll type this slowly so you can keep up. If you were never in the military, you know nothing of the dynamics of serving . Why would your sexual preference be something that needed to be declared? This whole matter is nothing more than the payback on a campaign promise.
"I think Herndon is a homophobe who just wanted to launch a personal attack."
Pot, meet kettle.
Herndon--
The issue is whether people should be discharged from the military because of their declared sexual orientation. If you're not a homophobe, why does this bother you so much? Why does it bother you at all?
"Why would your sexual preference be something that needed to be declared?"
It doesn't. But at the same time, one should not be drummed out for being who they are.
My humble thought is, and I'm just guessing here, that "gays" have been honorably serving in the armed forces since the Revolutionary war, If someone can explain to me how "unit cohesion" is adversly affected by someone's sexual orientation, I'd happily listen. How on earth did we help win two World Wars and fight others without any problems? And yes, I have a family member serving right now, so don't give me that crap about "not knowing".
People don't go around stating that they are straight. I would be offended if anyone asked my sexual orientation. So why does it have to be said at all. You are what you are and leave it at that. Don't ask don't tell....I'm sure that works for most. Except maybe those who are trying to cause an issue.
Herndon said...
To Buckeye and M:
I am absolutely certain neither of you have served in the military. I have and to put it kindly, based on your words, I would say you aren't the "type" who serve.
[end quote]
How does your foot taste> You sure put it deep into your mouth on this one. Not the type to serve. You may be right, I guess it depends on how u define serving.
Let me see if any of the things I have ever done qualifies as serving by your definition.
Does help Catholic Sisters box up school books in June and unbox and lay them out in September count? I/m not Catholic and there was no pay involved.
How about my wife and I running a support group for inmates at a med security state prison for 4 years.
What about my wife and I running a support group for gays and lesbians for 4 years at a UU Church?
Maybe my wife and I running a support group for those who suffer from HIV, ARC, AIDS and their families and loved ones for 4 years at a UU church? None of the above involved pay or anything like that. It just needed to be done so we did it.
Maybe this counts but it might be border line: May 30, 1961- August 8, 1970. You're looking pretty foolish about now.
[quote]
Since your arrogance allows you to be experts in all subject matter,
[end quote]
I have only been called an expert in one area, Church state separation. I do have some formal schooling in the legal field and those support groups were quite educational as well. It would take
a hell of a lot of arrogance on your part to even make the original comment you made.
{quote]
you should leave the matter of DADT to others.
[end quote]
Not at all. As a American citizen I have ever right to state my views and based on my experiences I do have knowledge on the topic.
[quote]
In matters of journalism in the journalistic hotbed of East Liverpool, or in Buckeye's case, shining the light on covert Christianity, your opinions will hold more water.
[end quote]
Considering you just got shown up your opinion doesn't impress much.
M......Christmas originated as the celebration of Jesus birth. How can you participate in the festivities if you don't believe in Jesus?
Serving in the military isn't special. It is a job with pay, benefits, and job duties.
It's ok to be gay in any other job in America - why not this job, too?
And don't give me the national security argument. Food supply is also a national security argument and gays can farm all day.
hmmmmm--
Point well taken, but it's a matter of not having to hide it, which is the current standard. I think this has little to do with homosexuality itself; rather, it's about having the right to be who you are. As far as the "rights" issue goes, it's no different than having to hide your religion or your political party to stay employed. At least that's how I see it.
Matt, I guess your chat the other day about ad hominem shadow-arguments fell on some deaf ears. I guess that those of us who have not served in the military have no right to an opinion about military matters.
So if you're a current or former military person, you get to ignore the polls showing that the vast majority of military personnel--including high ranking officers-- are for repeal of DADT. Those polls, I suppose, are commie-lib, whacko journalistic conspiracy?
In an effort for open-mindedness, let me add that I'm not hearing any hard questions about the potential for complications when two combat soldiers become romantically involved. Maybe I've just missed them; if not, those questions need the light of day.
No, I haven't served, but if I were in a combat unit that included women, and if there were as much down time as is reported between firefights and other occasions for hyper-vigilance, I can see how boredom and wandering minds might lead to the wandering of other body parts.
But I don't know; I haven't been there, and I haven't been a woman, and I haven't been gay. So I'm relying on information from parties that I hope are responsible and disinterested. That doesn't mean I trust them, but they're all I've got. For now, "they" would seem to mean journalists, scholars, and, yes, absolutely, combat veterans. And whatever they say, it had better be specific.
Finally, why should Matt's attitude and behavior regarding Christmas affect anyone's take on his journalism? Isn't that one more failure to look at ISSUES, because attacking the presenter is . . . easier? more fun?
fred--
I do believe in Jesus. Do I think he is a god? No, I don't. By now, Christmas has become overwhelmed with the secular. One can enjoy the holiday season without even knowing its religious significance; however, my family continues to recognize its religious significance.
Another point: we celebrate Christmas when we do because the Catholic Church wanted to Christianize the Roman celebration of Saturnalia, which took place on or near the winter solstice. So in some ways the origin of the Christmas celebration is pagan.
Originally gays were not allowed to server in the military. Anyone who it was known was gay would be discharged and sometimes all that was needed was suspicion or even rumor. If asked and yes you could be asked and u were gay u had to lie. If you admitted you were out you go.
The clinton Administration tried to get that whole thing ended but the best they could get passed as DADT. It was an improvement but men and women were still being tossed out for being gay.
You are g=correct gay men and gay woman have alway been in the military. There are gay men and women buried at Arlington National Cemetery and all other US Military Cemeteries around the world.
BANJO52
There have been cases in the Navy when ships go on long deployments over seas that some women have gotten preggers or that a woman and man have been caught in awkward situations. I doubt it is all that common but it has happened.
That was the scare tactic that was offered by the opposition it when the discussions about women serving on Navy ships etc first came up.
BTW being in the Navy 9 years it was not uncommon to have someone give a sly look and wink as they asked what all us sailors did while at sea all those long periods.
When I was in the Navy women weren't on combat ships and when we had a port call condoms were handed to u as u left the ship. I don't know if they still do that or not and if they do if they are handed to women as well.
Here is my opinion! WHO CARES!!!!!! If they do the job, and do it right, WHO CARES?????? Honestly are you gonna go into a hospital and ask if your nurse or doctor is gay????? NO!!!!!! Your there to get treated and they are there to do their job! WHO CARES!!!!!!!!
all this talk about nothing. it's an issue that shouldn't be an issue but unfortunately is because this country is built on puritanical hypocrisy. personally i don't care if you take it in the ass --- can you wave a hand cannon and throw down your life for another? that's what i want to know.
So Buckeye did serve even if it was the Navy. My brothers refuse to recognize the Navy as a branch of the military but since I don't want any poor hominems to get hurt, I'll give you credit. But I don't see where you "showed up" shit. You tooted your own horn and patted your own back about serving but didn't bring anything about the topic.
Be honest, Buckeye, if someone on your ship declared, "I"M gaayy!", How would that affect the mission? The job of the military is to kill people and blow things up. Declaring your sexual preference has nothing to do with that objective. That was the beauty of DADT. Like medhelen said, "who cares?" If her doctor walked into the room and said "the gay doctor is in!" Now I've got concerns. Are you here to be my doctor or just make a scene?
To wvthinker, no you "don't know" what it's like in war just because you're related to someone in the military. WTF logic is that? Were you given some kind of telepathy when they enlisted? My uncle's a surgeon so I should start cutting people open according to you.
And JeffM, as long as they don't ask you to lay down your Hungry Man and get off the couch you don't really care what the military does. Over.
Herndon,
First, thankyou-and your brothers- for your service. There is no higher calling.
Second, relax. Your point is well taken about not knowing what's it's like to be in combat. I should have been more clear. I'm looking at it from a parents point of view, not a soilder's or marine's. Unless someone's been under fire, they have truly don't know they emotion of it. I didn't mean to imply that I was going to take up arms, per your uncle comparison. That said, most of us have friends from every war since WWII. Between their stories and ones from parents with kids in Iraq and Afghanistan, I have some idea what the conditions are. And that very few of them care if person next to them with the gun is gay, as long as they know how to use it.
Herndon said...
So Buckeye did serve even if it was the Navy. My brothers refuse to recognize the Navy as a branch of the military but since I don't want any poor hominems to get hurt, I'll give you credit.
[end quote]
What a lame, sad and perverted attempt to try and save face. I don't know who these anon or perhaps made up brothers are but they sound as warped as you are. It is interesting that you and whomever you want to pretend are with you on this are so jaded and disrespectful of Americans who have served in the US Navy, many of whom have paid with their lives and lie buried in Military cemeteries in this county and American Military cemeteries around the world. That speaks volumes about you and whomever you pretend are with you on that position and what it says isn't good.
[quote]
But I don't see where you "showed up" shit. You tooted your own horn and patted your own back about serving but didn't bring anything about the topic.
[end quote]
No you wouldn't but that isn't surprising since it was "so complicated."
Remember this where you said,"To Buckeye and M:
I am absolutely certain neither of you have served in the military. I have and to put it kindly, based on your words, I would say you aren't the "type" who serve."
That was a stupid, foolish, arrogant comment. You stuck your foot in your mouth with that comment and others you made in that post and you got exposed for the fool you are with the facts.
Herndon said...
Be honest, Buckeye, if someone on your ship declared, "I"M gaayy!", How would that affect the mission?
Being honest blacks were hated as much as gays in those days. On one ship I was on we had a division of about 80 men, all white. A blk kid fresh out of boot camp was assigned our Division. The chief petty officer in charge of the aft engine room rode him unrightfully 24/7 until the kid couldn't take anymore and asked for transfer which the chief happily approved and we were a all white division again as were most on that ship except for those who worked in Officers country and the officers mess. they were mostly blk or Filipinos.
Even while the kid was in our division it never had a impact on anyone doing their jobs nor did we , i.e. the ship ever fail to be where we were suppose to be when we were suppose to be there or fail to arm and launch aircraft or recover aircraft.
That was another world, today blacks serve in the military with no problems, marry whom they want no matter the race. The world is surviving and moving on. There is still one group who is routinely denied equal rights or forced to lie or live a lie, etc and you seem to think that is ok.
You seem to be the one out of touch of the negative impact of DSDT. It is irrelevant now, the repeal has been signed into law and the world will survive and go on, the military will survive and go on and a group of Americans are a bit more equal to other Americans now.
Herndon,
What's your comment supposed to mean? Hungry Man? I don't eat Hungry Man. I cook my own food. As for your indirect way of saying, well, what I don't know about the military --- I support the people who choose to serve, but I don't support the current military missions. I think they're bogus and designed to keep the war machine afloat. And how can anyone support the government's handling of the military? I once went to a pancake fundraiser where people were trying to raise money to buy a platoon the necessary equipment needed to fight in Iraq. How fucked up is that? How can you support such a system?
And your comment about the Navy... Jesus you are an idiot. I suppose you're a Marine, then, right? They all deserve your respect.
Buckeye you are the most cantankerous joe ever. Do you mean you have never been kidded by another service member about your branch of service? Answer-YES "BTW being in the Navy 9 years it was not uncommon to have someone give a sly look and wink as they asked what all us sailors did while at sea all those long periods."-you HARHAR. I suppose you gave them the business after that one. "You sad, lame, perverted fool with a large foot in your large mouth...blah, blah, blah. BTW I know and am related to many Navy men who are top notch guys and I'd fight next to them any day. You, Sir, don't seem to be cut from the same cloth.
And to address my "stupid, arrogant comment", YOU apparently don't know what to serve means in a military context. YOU saw m's article was about the MILITARY. You ARROGANTLY listed a lenghty list of public good deeds you have done. It's not "complicated".
To wvthinker, sorry about the edge. You seem like a sweet person and I pray your loved one serves safely and returns home soon. Your burden is a hard one.
To JeffM, You support the troops but not the mission? Classic! Thank you. I too support you but I think whatever you do is "fucked up."
yeah, i can support the troops but not their mission. is that too complicated of a concept for you to understand? haven't you ever had two opposing feelings coincide in your mind simultaneously? tool.
The point I am trying to make is not anti-gay. I'm sure I served with great guys who were gay and fought well. Hell, I might even be gay if the music and lighting were right. My point is more anti-agenda. I'll use quotes from the AP story on Yahoo to make my point:
"The signing ceremony was a breakthrough moment for the nation's gay community, the military and for Obama himself. The president vowed during his 2008 campaign to repeal the law and faced pressure from liberals who complained he was not acting swiftly enough." And "By contrast, the emotion of Wednesday's ceremony defined it; even the president himself said he was "overwhelmed" by the moment. The gay activists and supporters packed in the room hooted, applauded and shouted in joy at the president, shedding any sense of a contained, formal event.
As Obama signed the bill into law, someone in the back of the room yelled: "We're here, Mr. President. Enlist us now!"
"I couldn't be prouder," Obama said."
Here we go. Liberals tinkering with something they know nothing about. We'll have to see how this "social experiment" goes.
And one more thing Buckeye, if you actually knew any black people, you would know that equating them with gay people really misses the mark and you're likely to put your own foot in your mouth.
I don't support the troops or the mission.
My last attempt to comment must've gotten lost. But the point I'm trying to make about DADT is not an anti-gay one. Mine is an anti-agenda stance. I'm positive I served with gay guys who fought with honor and have since the begining of time. Hell, I might even be gay if the music and lighting were right. Ill use quotes from the AP story on Yahoo to make my point.
"No longer will tens of thousands of Americans in uniform be asked to live a lie, or look over their shoulder in order to serve the country that they love," Obama said. AND
"A beaming Obama signed the bill at the Interior Department, a location chosen to accommodate a larger than normal audience that cheered, chanted and applauded throughout the ceremony."
The signing ceremony was a breakthrough moment for the nation's gay community, the military and for Obama himself. AND "The president vowed during his 2008 campaign to repeal the law and faced pressure from liberals who complained he was not acting swiftly enough." AND By contrast, the emotion of Wednesday's ceremony defined it; even the president himself said he was "overwhelmed" by the moment. The gay activists and supporters packed in the room hooted, applauded and shouted in joy at the president, shedding any sense of a contained, formal event."
"As Obama signed the bill into law, someone in the back of the room yelled: "We're here, Mr. President. Enlist us now!"
"I couldn't be prouder," Obama said.
Liberals tinkering with something they know nothing about. This is the part I don't like. This "social experiment" may or may not end well.
And one more thing Buckeye, if you actually knew any black people, you would know that they don't care for being equated with being gay. Not only will the foot be in your mouth, but another may end up in your ass.
Say you had a brother serving in Afghanistan and he was seriously wounded by enemy fire. A medic quickly arrives and determines your brother needs a blood transfusion. The medic has two boxes of blood for transfusions. One marked "Homosexual" the other marked "Heterosexual." From which box do you want the medic to draw the blood?
Herndon - So if we reduce everything to your simple logic, doesn’t it stand to reason that you are not sufficiently supporting the troops by not respecting you Commander-In-Chief’s decision to fully integrate the armed forces on the basis of sexual orientation? If unconditionally supporting the war is a prerequisite of supporting the troops, then wouldn’t unconditionally supporting the head of the armed forces and the decision he or she makes in military matters also be a prerequisite? Or do the prerequisites only apply if it fits into your narrow ideological worldview?
YesUCan, I'll tell you who the troops support and thats each other. They don't have much respect for a president who was snorting coke when he was of serving age. The fact that today's repeal ceremony looked more like a gay pride rally does nothing to help this Commander-in-Chiefs cred. This lame-duck act has nothing to do with any mission but is a special interest payback.
So, to put it simply, no this does not fit into my narrow ideological world view. Thank you for wondering.
To jeffm, no I have never had two opposing feelings coincide in my mind at the same time. I'm not like you. Thats why guys like me will continue to eat your Hungry Man. bitch.
I've commented on this but it has shown up. I've served in the Air Force for 20 years so I've been there done that. I'm sure that I've served with gays and that's not the problem. The problem is that I don't want to live with a gay person. The dormitories are set up for 2 people sharing the same room. Sharing a room with a gay person who has his significant other come into our room to watch TV and hold hands and cuddling is not something I want to be around. Yet, we're told that we are professionals and that we should put up with this. So, in other words my rights get trampled so someone else can have their rights.
Herndon - "So, to put it simply, no this does not fit into my narrow ideological world view. Thank you for wondering."
You're welcome. And thank you for proving my point.
"They don't have much respect for a president who was snorting coke when he was of serving age."
Really? To hear conservatives tell it, the troops adored Dubya.
"Liberals tinkering with something they know nothing about."
So are you suggesting that no liberal has every served his or her own country?
Everyone - Yes, you're rights have been trampled on. You no longer have the right to discriminate against someone based on their sexual orientation. You can no longer be an outwardly bigoted homophobe. Please forgive me if I don't shed a tear for you and the rest of the oppressed minority.
Everyone--
The social contract model, upon which modern democracies are built, is exactly as you say. The price of living in society is that everyone's individual rights are compromised to maximize the rights of others. Obviously, the goal is to balance individual and social rights, but that requires a certain measure of tolerance. If everyone is the same or you live in total isolation, there is little or no conflict. But if a society is complex and heterogeneous, then conflicts will arise. Any way you cut it, tolerance is the key ingredient.
Dear Everyone Has Rights,
I'm afraid you have a rather large, festive Tennenbaum stuck up your star-spangled posterior.
If you have a problem with a same sex couple watching TV together,
then football Sundays must suck for you. Many a bromance would be torn asunder beneath your glare.
As for the public cuddling, how many queer couples have had to put up with hetero-PDA in everyday life.
If you are a military man, then that means you have huevos. You also have a voice. You can tell the offensive, cuddling couple that you are uncomfortable with their floor show, and that you would appreciate it if they would restrain themselves until you have left the room.
Huevos, dude. Everyone has the right to grow a pair. No one is taking yours away. Except you.
Sincerely,
Santa's Favorite Elf (Deal With It)
M. That's exactly the point. I made the comment that I don't won't to live with a gay person. I didn't say that they couldn't serve. I'm tolerant of them but as soon as I say that I don't want to live with one then that makes me a homophobe. The whole point is that they have rights but the rest of us don't? The problem with this social experiment is noone wants to listen to this argument. So to YES US CAN, if you want to live in a 10 x 12 room with a gay person so be it, to call me names and to say that my rights don't matter shows that the wide ranging affects of this to the Military are beyond your comprehension.
Mr. Santa, again you miss the point. We are told that if he is in his room, which he shares with me, he has the right to enjoy all the rights and priveledges of being in his room. We cannot ask them to take it elsewhere or to leave. As you so elegantly put it I must leave my own room and what I'm doing so that they can cuddle. And watching football on Sunday is not the problem. In the military you're living with this person 24-7 it's not just an afternoon thing.
I think its bullcrap that the military continues to get pay increases while the American tax payer has less to live with.
They should have to suffer like the rest of us. I'm tired of them being special.
I support some of our troops, but definitely not all of them.
Herndon said...
Buckeye you are the most cantankerous joe ever.
[end quote]
Factually speaking you are still spouting off about things you have no knowledge of. You see, you have never known every person who ever was or is now.
[quote]
Do you mean you have never been kidded by another service member about your branch of service?
[end quote]
Still trying to save face with lame excuses rather then just owing up to the truth. The truth is you came into here in an attack mode.
"To Buckeye and GM: I am absolutely certain neither of you have served in the military. I have and to put it kindly, based on your words, I would say you aren't the "type" who serve."
There was no kidding intent in the above no joking intent in the above. It was meant to attack, to insult, to make it personal. Twice now you have tried to save face with lame excuses trying to re frame it into something it isn't and wasn't.
[snip]
[quote]
And to address my "stupid, arrogant comment", YOU apparently don't know what to serve means in a military context. YOU saw m's article was about the MILITARY. You ARROGANTLY listed a lenghty list of public good deeds you have done. It's not "complicated".
[end quote]
Oh yes I did. In part sarcastically laughing at and mocking you and partly because they are related. I am very much aware of the non Steeler topic of this thread since it is possible I may have played role in the topic being posted here. If you recall two of those "serving" examples did pertain to gays and lesbians. Those groups met in the late 1980s and early 1990s in the UU Church in Norfolk, Virginia, a military town, and some of the gay and lesbians members of those two groups were members of various branches of the Military. So you see, they did belong in my answer after all.
Herndon
So interesting you focus totally on politics "liberals"
You are either uninformed of a lot of facts or you are blowing smoke on purpose.
Fact:
Openly gay soldiers were serving in the militaries of other countries that were members of Bush’s “Coalition of the Willing,” and those militaries noticed no adverse effects, nor did the coalition.
Fact:
And our military, so short not only of able bodies but of skilled minds, was in no position to be cashiering the 14,000 gays and lesbians who got tossed because Bill Clinton didn’t have the guts to outlaw discrimination in the military in the first place.
Fact:
Admiral Mike Mullen, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, put it perfectly in Senate testimony on February 2: "No matter how I look at the issue, I cannot escape being troubled by the fact that we have in place a policy which forces young men and women to lie about who they are in order to defend their fellow citizens. For me, personally, it comes down to integrity -- theirs as individuals and ours as an institution.”
Fact:
The majority of Americans favored repealing DADT that including many who have served in the military over the years.
Fact:
The Pentagon favored repealing
Fact;
The law denied a segment of the American population the same rights other Americans had. That is discrimination with no valid reason.
I will repeat:
The US Military will survive and move on, The country will survive and move on just as it has when other groups were admitted into the military and/or allowed to serve on combat shipe of combat units. It is funny how people with certain political views rant and rave how the world as we know it will end each time a group that was discriminated against is finally given equal rights. Those people haven't been right a single time
Everyone has rights... said...
. . . The problem is that I don't want to live with a gay person. The dormitories are set up for 2 people sharing the same room. Sharing a room with a gay person who has his significant other come into our room to watch TV and hold hands and cuddling is not something I want to be around.
[end quote]
If you spent 20 years in the Air Force you have already lived with or around gays. You seem to have survived that. How many times when you were living in your two man rooms did a roommate bring his GF or wife into the room and sit there in front of you with her holding hands or cuddling etc?
My experiences have been that people tend to do that in private far more so than in a college or military dorm room. I will acknowledge that there were times when I was in the Navy when a groups of us went to a local whorehouse overseas or bar and we ended up in a room, several of us and several girls. Yes sexually things got active between the gals and guys but it never happened on board a ship nor in any Navy Barracks/dorms I was ever in.
[quote]
Yet, we're told that we are professionals and that we should put up with this. So, in other words my rights get trampled so someone else can have their rights.
[end quote]
Nope you don't have to put up with it anymore than u are required to put up with a guy making out with his wife or girlfriend or street corner pickup in front of you. You tell them to get a room other then the room he shares with u and if he doesn't you say something to the next higher up on the chain of command. You are really scarping the bottom of the barrel for reasons with this comment of yours. Your rights are not being violated.
yes us can,
when it comes to herndon, don't bother trying to think any higher than a deer stand --- the place in which he was born, to which he prays.
One consideration you're overlooking in this discussion is that the signiture homosexual act, anal sex, is an example of abnormal behavior, what used to be referred to as a 'perversion'.
It is either a psychopathology or a pneumopathology; I happen to think it is more the latter that manifests itself psychologically.
One would think that the primary reason the military rejected homosexuals was the disease factor. Homosexuals tend to be promiscuous (yes, I'm aware there are those that eventually 'settle' down and 'marry')and, consequently, spread HIV and sundry and related sexual diseases.
And, remember heterosexuals who engage in similar behavior (multiple partners) and repeatedly report to the medic with sexual disease can be or used to be drummed out of the service rather regularly.
Interestingly, if you look at classical history we can see that homosexuality is one of those markers that indicates the 'health' of a civilization. Many Axial Age empires began to collapse with the acceptance of homosexuality and the rise of promiscuous heterosexual behavior, the abandonment of the moral order, the collapse of the family, etc. Today with the movement toward a more 'tolerant' acceptance of homosexuals we are able to see the same phenomenon within our society
(..you might want to thank the commie-Dems for that!).
Bob--
I'm glad somebody here is an authority on male anal sex.
M,
(quote)
I suggest that you read up on science--particularly astronomy, evolutionary biology
(end quote)
Why are humans still not evolving?
We are.
Suspicious Mind,
(Q)
Suspicious Mind said...
I think its bullcrap that the military continues to get pay increases while the American tax payer has less to live with.
They should have to suffer like the rest of us. I'm tired of them being special.
(EQ)
What a knuckle head way of thinking! Some of your/our tax dollars pay for these men/women to have bullets flying at them, keeping planes from flying into buildings occupied by US, kids walking up on them with bombs attached to their person, being away from their families during Holidays, birthdays, graduations and many other obstacles facing them daily... They probably think it's BULL SHIT to have comments like this directed toward them why people like you sit on their Fat ass and complain about them protecting them! Your comment should make Matt's all time dumbest comments list!!!
Matt, the more I read your blog, the more I understand why you are an 'intellectual' living in ELO.
It's just another hole, Bob.
Hey jeffm, Why don't you just address me directly instead of looking for an ally in yesucan? Or is that how you get military cred? I feel like I've just been taunted by a 4th grader on the playground but since I can't push you down and make you eat from the sandbox where the tomcat craps, I'll just taunt you back even with the near mortal wound to my hominem.
Jeffm, Jeffm, he will lend you his face while your ass is on vacation!!! There how was that!
Herndon does more before 9am than jeffm will do in his whole life. bitch.
Buckeye,as soon as I get a few hours to figure out your weird format, I'll set you straight on a few things. But for starters, if you continue to equate homosexual behavior with straight sexual behavior, you may have consumed far too much KoolAid to be reached.
Take a look at what military people get for pay now days then look at what you are making. It'll make you mad. By the way they haven't gotten a raise for the past two years.
I was just e-mailed a great article by the lovely Ann Coulter. It covers what I suspected of this "poll" that got the DADT results the pentagon was looking for. I know you libs hate her because she has balls bigger than yours but it's still a good read.
http://www.anncoulter.com/cgi-local/article.cgi?article=400
Herndon, thanks for the link to the article. Ann Colter is not my favorite author, but she does have good points.
My thoughts are that if gays can openly serve, then why should there be separate barracks or "dorms" for opposite sexes. If someone is checking out my "junk", I want it to be someone of the opposite sex. So, just build one big lockerroom and let them all shower and bunk together.
That wouldn't be a distraction, or would it?
Bob said...
One consideration you're overlooking in this discussion is that the signiture homosexual act, anal sex, is an example of abnormal behavior, what used to be referred to as a 'perversion'.
[end quote]
What century do you live in Bob? I think you meant "use to be". However there are a good many things that "use to be" that are no longer because people got wiser, gave up stupid things and so forth.
Some facts which you seem ignorant of:
(1) Not all gays or lesbians engage in anal sex.
(2) There is no sexual act which is exclusively "gay or Lesbian" Heterosexuals also engage in anal sex.
(3) Your so called abnormal behavior or perversion is probably as old as mankind, been around in just about every culture and for the most part were condemned as a result of the war on women and sexuality over the centuries. You have heard of "crimes against nature" that church based thinking that only the missionary position and only acts which can lead directly to making babies is proper.
But nice try Bob, just no cigar.
Herndon said...
Buckeye,as soon as I get a few hours to figure out your weird format,
{end quote
Nice cop-out.
Yes I am aware that one needs a large quantity of advance degrees so understand a format that is quite common in the largest discussion format on the internet, Usenet Newsgroups as well as many other discussion formats I have participated in on the internet over the years. I should have dumbed it down for people like you here.
It is quite simple. I am one of those odd people that will actually try to usually address each point someone makes. I know that is quite unlike what most do. Most will take one point or one sentence and address just that in a reply. I don't usually. I will quote their point, I reply to it, I take their next point, quote it then reply to it, Simple, no?
[quote]
I'll set you straight on a few things.
[end quote]
Promises promises, but that would be something new if you actually did. You haven't really said anything of any value yet. Mostly you have been trying to extract your foot from your mouth and calling people names and swearing a lot, i.e. "bitch".
[quote]
But for starters, if you continue to equate homosexual behavior with straight sexual behavior, you may have consumed far too much KoolAid to be reached.
[end quote]
Sex is sex. There is no such thing as exclusive homosexual sexual behavior and/or exclusive heterosexual behavior.
Herndon said...
I was just e-mailed a great article by the lovely Ann Coulter. It covers what I suspected of this "poll" that got the DADT results the pentagon was looking for. I know you libs hate her because she has balls bigger than yours but it's still a good read.
http://www.anncoulter.com/cgi-local/article.cgi?article=400
Ann Coulter, the queen of the Radical Right hate division. On my such an authority.
Buckeye, I will not respond with your "[I quote],[you quote], [she quotes],[lets all jump in a boat and hope it floats]" format. I do like the one where you type "FACT:" in all caps then declare facts as you see them.
FACT: At no point was I trying to "save face" with an anonymous guy who I do not like and does not like me. I was jabbing you. Things are only funny when stated by fellow liberals.
FACT: You are cantankerous. I have looked in the archives and your own words condemn you. Others on this site have agreed. And since apparently having at least one person agree with your stance constitutes a fact, this is now fact.
FACT: You are either an anomaly or dishonest. If you had spouted your blowhard liberal views on a Navy ship you surely would have been used as an anchor.
FACT: Yes, coalition of the willing forces may have had openly gay troops but they FOLLOWED the strongest military of them all. Ours. It was not the other way around nor could that have been possible. Why would liberals tinker with something that is not broken? Votes, of course.
FACT: Don't trust the opinions of yes men Pentagon brass who have a career to worry about.
FACT: There are valid reasons for this you-called discrimination. You just can't see over your KoolAid cup to see them.
FACT: If you disagree with me it might be because you were born in a tree stand.
My brother directed me to this site and I liked it until I checked out some of the archives. Why would decent folk put up with some of the crap on here? Lack of alternatives? To be put down and called uneducated and ignorant for believing in God? FACT: Most people believe in God. Don't be ashamed because some so-declared smart weenies and their lackeys laugh at that. Their hard hearts won't allow them to go to the same realms you do. It would be nice to see some of you sharp tacks who frequent here start your own blog. Some of the greatest people come from this area and have alot to offer. I'm sure M won't mind the competition.
Now I'm going to do what I came home to do. Hang with the fam and love on my new nephew. He's the next Herndon. Look out world. I think he just filled his pants with some JeffM.
Have a super solstice!
Herndon--
We've seen your kind before. You discover the site, decide that it's some place you can dispense a bunch of garden-variety conservative platitudes, get angry when people don't buy it, insult all the regular posters, and announce that you'll never return.
It's interesting that none of our regular conservative posters really came to your aid, but then again someone whose first comment is an "absolutely certain" error is pretty high risk.
What a refreshing comment on this blog by Herdon. I couldn't agree more with not only his stance on the one called Buckyeye and his views on this blog.
I recall someone saying once there are people educated beyond their intellect. I truly believe that is the case here.
Merry Christmas everyone.
Matty said,
"It's interesting that none of our regular conservative posters really came to your aid, but then again someone whose first comment is an "absolutely certain" error is pretty high risk."
AS I sees it he was holding his own against Buckeye, Jeffy M, and you, so no "aid" is needed.
Merry Christmas Matt,
HOHOHOHOHOHOHOOHOHOHO
As I sees it--
Merry Christmas to you too!
Popeye The Sailor Man said...
As I sees it said
It just goes to prove simple people only require simple things to be satisfied.
Buck,
But...but you didn't quote me. Your comment doesn't count. You didn't quote me.
But seriously though, I don't think you qualify for my comment not even to quote me.
WOW DUMB said...
What a knuckle head way of thinking! Some of your/our tax dollars pay for these men/women to have bullets flying at them, keeping planes from flying into buildings occupied by US, kids walking up on them with bombs attached to their person, being away from their families during Holidays, birthdays, graduations and many other obstacles facing them daily... They probably think it's BULL SHIT to have comments like this directed toward them why people like you sit on their Fat ass and complain about them protecting them! Your comment should make Matt's all time dumbest comments list!!!
You're right, some of my tax money goes to them for doing their job. I'm not saying they shouldn't receive pay or be poor. They do work, and they should get paid for working.
As for your claim that they have to dodge bullets and miss their family life - that comes with the job, and they knew that when they signed up. The recruiter said "If you do this, we will pay you this." They were fully aware of what was in store (and if not, that's their own fault), so I don't feel bad about questioning their pay whatsoever.
Obviously I'm not just "sitting on my fat ass", since I am working to pay their salaries.
And as their employer, I think it's fair that I should have some say in their annual performance reviews and subsequent pay raises.
I don't feel more protected today than I did last year, so why the pay increase?
According to new stories I searched in 20 seconds on google, obama approved a 2.9% pay increase for service members in 2010. Meanwhile, the cost of living has not increased nearly as much - illustrated by the fact that Congress froze COLA increases for social security recipients.
Just my opinion. And as a warning, I have more of them, which I plan to spit out as I continue sitting her on my ungrateful fat ass.
Great post on the magic man. Its hard for believers to comprehend the fact that they, in fact, may be devoting a lifetime to a fictitious character simply because they have been conditioned to do so. Its just hard to swallow the story of Jesus after noting its eerily similar to paganism, and the fact that the gods of other cultures share virtually the same attributes such as virgin birth, death and resurrection and performing miracles. I know its tough to comprehend for them, but it is nothing more than an early form of social control. Matt, if u haven't checked out zeitgeistmovie.com yet, please do. Very in depth, though some things are undocumented, just as Christianity is. Either way, its worth a look.
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